Rotor Circlips
12-14-2004 | 04:26 PM
#2
Fabricator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,322
From: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Cheesy,Dec 14 2004, 12:55 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of a rotor that has been modified to use a circlip to retain the gear at high rpm
There used to be one in the Racing Beat Catalog, but I cannot find mine right now, so I cannot say for sure. If you don't have one, it is the primary reference for hot rodding rotaries.
Lynn E. Hanover
Does anyone have any pictures of a rotor that has been modified to use a circlip to retain the gear at high rpm
There used to be one in the Racing Beat Catalog, but I cannot find mine right now, so I cannot say for sure. If you don't have one, it is the primary reference for hot rodding rotaries.
Lynn E. Hanover
12-15-2004 | 05:01 PM
#6
Fabricator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,322
From: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
kahren,Dec 14 2004, 10:22 PM
lynn have you ever lost a 12a to a gear cooming out?
I have not.
The gear comes out at very high stress levels, and is far more likely to walk out at very high RPM. The smooth surface of the land area next to the oil control scrapers runs into the iron should this happen.
It happens to us from time to time when boy blunder blows a shift, and revs go to the moon. I just press the gear back into place in the press. Or if forced to work in the dirt, a piece of aluminum plate stock on the gear and a blow from a hand sledge does the trick. These two land areas keep the outer parts of the rotor from touching the irons and run just a few thousandths off the surface of the iron. The only way I can tell if they have touched is that I take off the shine with some wet sand paper when I clean the rotors. If one or both land areas get shiny, they have been touching, and I need to press the gear in tight again. These things are buried in oil, so they do no damage when touching.
The disaster fried burned up irons and rotors you see from time to time are overheated rotors expanding to a size bigger than that clearance and hosing the irons. Not just a touch here and there.
The circlip deal for us fell out of use for many years, because there is not enough breathing in a club car to make power above 9,500 RPM to 9,600 RPM. Now that injection is allowed, and there was no reduction in choke size (38MM) to account for the better breathing (no booster venturi in the path) all of the money guys are twisting the hell out of the engines, and I'm sure they will be back to circlipping the gears again. We don't go that high, so we don't do it.
So here we are again with the no money (we race with other people who don't have a cast of dozens and a semi trailer) and running mid pack. If you gave us the injection for free we could'nt afford the circliped and lightened rotors to take advantage of it. We are stuck at about 250HP, and the pole sitter has 280HP at well above 10,000 RPM.
So if you have a gear walk out on you, just sit it on a flat piece of wood and whack the gear back in under a piece of aluminum plate stock. It only has to go in a few thousandths, so don't go nuts with the hammer.
Lynn E. Hanover
Did you ever want to see through a rotor to look at seal tracks and corner seal support? Here you go....A see through rotor.
lynn have you ever lost a 12a to a gear cooming out?
I have not.
The gear comes out at very high stress levels, and is far more likely to walk out at very high RPM. The smooth surface of the land area next to the oil control scrapers runs into the iron should this happen.
It happens to us from time to time when boy blunder blows a shift, and revs go to the moon. I just press the gear back into place in the press. Or if forced to work in the dirt, a piece of aluminum plate stock on the gear and a blow from a hand sledge does the trick. These two land areas keep the outer parts of the rotor from touching the irons and run just a few thousandths off the surface of the iron. The only way I can tell if they have touched is that I take off the shine with some wet sand paper when I clean the rotors. If one or both land areas get shiny, they have been touching, and I need to press the gear in tight again. These things are buried in oil, so they do no damage when touching.
The disaster fried burned up irons and rotors you see from time to time are overheated rotors expanding to a size bigger than that clearance and hosing the irons. Not just a touch here and there.
The circlip deal for us fell out of use for many years, because there is not enough breathing in a club car to make power above 9,500 RPM to 9,600 RPM. Now that injection is allowed, and there was no reduction in choke size (38MM) to account for the better breathing (no booster venturi in the path) all of the money guys are twisting the hell out of the engines, and I'm sure they will be back to circlipping the gears again. We don't go that high, so we don't do it.
So here we are again with the no money (we race with other people who don't have a cast of dozens and a semi trailer) and running mid pack. If you gave us the injection for free we could'nt afford the circliped and lightened rotors to take advantage of it. We are stuck at about 250HP, and the pole sitter has 280HP at well above 10,000 RPM.
So if you have a gear walk out on you, just sit it on a flat piece of wood and whack the gear back in under a piece of aluminum plate stock. It only has to go in a few thousandths, so don't go nuts with the hammer.
Lynn E. Hanover
Did you ever want to see through a rotor to look at seal tracks and corner seal support? Here you go....A see through rotor.
12-16-2004 | 08:12 AM
#7
Fabricator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,322
From: Central Ohio (Hebron) Zephyrhills Fla.
Eric Happy Meal,Dec 14 2004, 06:01 PM
so what exactly is the circlip? and how does it work?
Circlip was a trade name for snap ring. I tried to find out who owns that name but had no luck. Google circlip for many sources.
Just a fancy snap ring, with the addition of holes at each end for the pins on the pliers to fit into. You notice that snap ring pliers have flat jaws. Circlip pliers are the ones with the wire like pins that fit in those holes.
The rotor indexing gear is just pushed into a hole in the rotor. There are then a number of holes drilled that half include that gear and the rotor. Then a bunch of roll pins are pressed into those holes. Roll pins are high carbon sheet metal rolled up into the pin shape. When pressed into the holes they are compressed a bit.....
(roll up a bit tighter as they get smaller) and this spring action creates much friction, and that is all that keeps the gear in place.
When the rotor gets hot the light press fit between the rotor and gear is lost and only the friction of the roll pins is holding the gear. At very high revs the gear tends to walk out of the hole and that flat land area starts touching the iron.
So a combination of high revs and a very hot rotor (poor oil cooling) will cause this.
The Circlip (fancy snap ring) is used to prevent the gear from walking out of the hole. The gear is removed. A snap ring groove is flycut close to the bottom of the hole in the rotor. A similar snap ring groove is cut near the end of the gear (the end that goes into the hole). A very large Circlip or snap ring is fitted onto the end of the gear and compressed into the groove. The gear is pressed into the hole in the rotor, with the original pin holes lined up, and when the gear bottoms in the hole, the Circlip pops out and about half of it engages the groove in the rotor.
Then new roll pins are installed. Now the gear will not walk out of the hole, no matter how many revs, no matter how hot.
These would be fully prepared rotors very light, clearanced, polished maybe, extra bearing clearance, and so on. Very pricy.
Lynn E. Hanover
No coments on the see through rotor?????
Why do I try so hard???????????????
so what exactly is the circlip? and how does it work?
Circlip was a trade name for snap ring. I tried to find out who owns that name but had no luck. Google circlip for many sources.
Just a fancy snap ring, with the addition of holes at each end for the pins on the pliers to fit into. You notice that snap ring pliers have flat jaws. Circlip pliers are the ones with the wire like pins that fit in those holes.
The rotor indexing gear is just pushed into a hole in the rotor. There are then a number of holes drilled that half include that gear and the rotor. Then a bunch of roll pins are pressed into those holes. Roll pins are high carbon sheet metal rolled up into the pin shape. When pressed into the holes they are compressed a bit.....
(roll up a bit tighter as they get smaller) and this spring action creates much friction, and that is all that keeps the gear in place.
When the rotor gets hot the light press fit between the rotor and gear is lost and only the friction of the roll pins is holding the gear. At very high revs the gear tends to walk out of the hole and that flat land area starts touching the iron.
So a combination of high revs and a very hot rotor (poor oil cooling) will cause this.
The Circlip (fancy snap ring) is used to prevent the gear from walking out of the hole. The gear is removed. A snap ring groove is flycut close to the bottom of the hole in the rotor. A similar snap ring groove is cut near the end of the gear (the end that goes into the hole). A very large Circlip or snap ring is fitted onto the end of the gear and compressed into the groove. The gear is pressed into the hole in the rotor, with the original pin holes lined up, and when the gear bottoms in the hole, the Circlip pops out and about half of it engages the groove in the rotor.
Then new roll pins are installed. Now the gear will not walk out of the hole, no matter how many revs, no matter how hot.
These would be fully prepared rotors very light, clearanced, polished maybe, extra bearing clearance, and so on. Very pricy.
Lynn E. Hanover
No coments on the see through rotor?????
Why do I try so hard???????????????
